I guess everyone brings his or her own level of intensity and yearning to spiritual life. For some it is rote ... just be good and you'll get a gold star. For others it may be a blessing or a relief agency. And for still others it can be like one of those splinters that hurts like hell -- is front and center in every move you make -- and yet trying to get it out yields no results... infuriating, insistent, uplifting, depressing, smoldering, endlessly confounding.
But whatever the way in and whatever the intensity, still I wonder if others wonder as I do ... what is it precisely that you're after? This is a question I surely wouldn't presume to answer for anyone else, but I get to ask it, same as you. All that effort, all that dress-up, all that intense dedication, all that time, all that money, all that accumulated knowledge, all that ... stuff ... for what? I don't mean the inadequate things like "peace" or "bliss" or "joy" or "enlightenment" or "emptiness" or "Nirvana" or even a "trip to Disneyland."
For ...
WHAT?Anybody else's answer will always be inadequate. But the sneaky part is that even my answers will always be inadequate. How can anyone answer when no one can answer? I'm not trying to be sexy or 'Zen' here ... just seriously....
For ...
WHAT?Sitting at the kitchen table sipping tea and talking amiably, my Zen teacher once said "maybe it's like the pointless point." He didn't say "maybe" like some academic trying to protect his credentialed flanks. He said it with the kind of wistful tone of a man who could never do what he was speaking of doing, never know what he was speaking of knowing, never capture what he was capturing with words ... because if he could do it, how could it possibly be true?
Like incense smoke, the words make me happy tonight -- "the pointless point." Maybe all that spiritual stuff is just spiritual stuff and while you were busy doing it, the pointless-point cat snuck in the back door, purring and unnoticed. Warm and wily, easy-going and assured. Go ahead and say there's a "cat." Go ahead and run a spiritual number proclaiming there is "no cat." The cat doesn't mind and s/he is also polite enough not to laugh.
Pointless point cat.
Maybe.
Is the goal of Zen training to become a better person or to become a Zen teacher yourself?
ReplyDeleteMethinks Nonin and Co. would answer the latter.
People seem to experience this intense need to find "meaning" or purpose of living a life. I did this churning most of my life. I think that the the thought of there being "no meaning" to this existence that we mostly suffer through from birth to death, with a few moments of joy here and there...just scares the crap out of us. POINTLESS...say it ain't so Joe!!!
ReplyDeleteI've dropped the useless pursuit of finding the meaning to life and try my best to do meaningful things. Perhaps paint a painting someone might enjoy or listen to some share there difficulties and try to console. I dunno, while on this ride, thought it might be better to do something rather than nothing.
You can cut this cloth a thousand times, you say it this way, another says it that, both can be so, but it's all how you frame it. You yourself (seemingly) contradict yourself a lot, but really you are just playing this way and that, weaving the questions that need to be addressed.
ReplyDeleteIt's ironic in a way..in one sense all life has the same essence, it's all cut from the same cloth, but everyone has a choice as to how or what that looks like, what they weave..and together the whole tapestry is sown. Moment to moment, we are all weavers, weaving this revelation called life.. yet of course it is also real because it is through us that it is borne, comes to life, interplays, and thus is...is again and again and again.
You say for what, I say what for. Those borne near the so-called spiritual elements are just those of us who find a different play setting more appealing for now, but like all settings, true spirituality does not come from what play pen we choose to indulge in, but rather ths Source of all that is Love. Peasants, farmers, workmen and milk wives all live lives of pure spirituality and faith, but perhaps never name it so. The heart lives, She does not need recognition in so.
Those who come to the pen of spiritual play are endowed only with the advantages of 1. learning the tools and mechanisms of the Universe at play including consciousness, birth, Love and Silence. In that they can choose more possibilities than those who cannot or do not know the strings we can pull in our lives and 2. They are endowed with the strength of being able to impart - not through folly or imagination or trickery - the way of the world in a spiritual sense
At another level, all is already spiritual because who is ever outside the Source of Love and Creation herself..no-one - even though it doesn't always feel like this.
Happy weaving, genkaku
What are you on ? LOL...Dont bother to answer. I am sure it will be more gobbledegook.
DeleteChris - I always thought Dogen had a good description of the curriculum. Transcendence may be a higher standard, but nothing saying it isn't 'better' - at least IMO :)
DeleteChristopher - the goal of Zen is to become a better person?
ReplyDeleteRe: Nonin, I am no fan, and he was coddled at ZFI (as they coddle anyone with a title on the desk) but you gotta say abuse is really not on.
It is for me. What else could it be? Of course, it all depends what you mean by "better".
DeleteIn any case, Zen practice shouldn't be like some arcane college major, that is useless other than to become a teacher yourself.
Response above :) 'Anonymous' doesn't understand anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem anyway
DeleteCheers.
I assume dude that you are piggy backing on genkaku's blog in order to gain a readership for your meaningless drool because no one reads your own blog.
DeleteMy thoughts exactly. I come here to read Genkaku's musings.
DeleteI read enough of your crap on E Sangha to last me a lifetime "floating abu ". And I know for a fact that I am not alone.
Just butt out.
Well said..lol. I think you speak for a whole lot of people.
DeleteI guess most people tune in in read genkakus words..not some guy mouthing off about stuff that he has read somewhere.
I never read E sangha but I have come across this abu guy on New Buddhist and he is clueless.Its just words.
Go back to your own blog dude..leave this one clear.
We can all hear the sound of a dud quarter when it hits the sidewalk.
WTF?
DeleteWhat interesting and long standing venomous vitriol :) Nevertheless, I am glad you liked reading my posts at e-Sangha, it's always a pleasure.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes for sure I am here only to ramp up the readership on my blog, your understandings are amazing as usual, wow, blows me away.
... this is all beginning to remind me of "Emily Litella's" oozingly sincere question on Saturday Night Live:
ReplyDeleteWhat is all this fuss I hear about the Supreme Court decision on a "deaf" penalty? It's terrible! Deaf people have enough problems as it is!
A couple of additional comments were addressed to my email box this morning, but don't seem to have made it onto the blog here. I'm not sure what that's about (I didn't do anything to block or bar anyone's comment) ... but the machine seems to have been reading my mind ... it's time to knock off all the self-aggrandizing playground stuff.
ReplyDeleteLet's consider the comment section closed.