Let's take it logically. Let's posit as a given that someone does have a degree of intuitive understanding. This means that the "intuitive understanding" is in touch with the intellectual mind to a greater or lesser extent. Now if the "intutive understanding" is great and clear Then when one says "Everything is everything," then "Yes! "Everything Is Everything." But if the intutive insight isn't so clear, when one says "'If' everything is everything, can we stop asking questions now" the chances are it is not the time to stop asking questions."
Better to continue training and questions than to ask, "can we stop now?" IMHO
Years ago I would have simply said "No!" "Do not stop!!" "Bravely March On!!" Now it's like."OK, Frank you're tired, take a break, eat your Protein Bar or drink your Boost, then take a nap. In other words, meditate (e.g. morning Zazen, Exercise (e.g. stretch, weights, walk), Read or listen to the radio or watch TV (news and opinion, do some creative work (write, paint, draw, photograph, work on some hobby.), watch a movie or go to a show, hang out with some friends, hangout with my wife, hangout with my kids, work part time. In words, live a balanced life. When one can one should focus on one of the areas of life that needs some attention.
Obviously one cannot possibly not all these things on the same day.
This line of thought is loosely based on John Daido Loori's "The Eight Gates of Zen," a very thoughtful examination of Zen Training from the perspectice of long term / life time practice.
I'm still figuring it out as I go along. Which is why I disagreed with you and your twenty year rule spiritual expiration post. In other words with the right prioritizing and scheduling one can continue one's training and do stamp collecting, mountain climbing, picture painting, getting out to the race track, becoming an aficionado of shoes, and singing at breakfast . Please don't do the later at sesshin though some of us want and like the peace and quiet of prolonged zazen.
My first Zen instructor, known then as Tai-san, introduced a woman who believe she experienced a deep and profound realization. He told us up front that she would not be talking to us in the way a well trained Zen student would. He said that a well trained Zen student would have told a poem, and he recited poem from a story published in the little book entitled ”Zen Flesh Zen Bones” complied, and translated by Nyogen Sensaki and Paul Reps.:
A monk asked Fuketsu: "Without speaking, without silence, how can you express the truth?"
Fuketsu observed: "I always remember springtime in southern China. The birds sing among innumerable kinds of fragrant flowers.”
- [Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, p.200]
Now Tai let the lady speak for a full 40 minutes. It was fascinating. But she used the languages of early Buddhism and of Kundalini Yoga. I believed her. Since Tai-san allowed her to speak;……………………………………0 he gave his implicit sanction to her experiences..
But her revelations were off the chart. it sounded a little nuts in fact. Lights, energy, dissolution of the self, merging with the infinite, etc. She kept repeating the line ”Infinite Mind, Omnipresent and Impersonal.” She was going to lead her own group.
I weighed what she said against what Tai-san said
"I always remember springtime in southern China. The birds sing among innumerable kinds of fragrant flowers.”
to
”Infinite Mind, Omnipresent and Impersonal.”
I decide that I greatly preferred the Zen approach. Yet I see still value in other approach.
But I am a sucker for a good question, and a product of unfinsihed training.
You're asking us? Dunno. lol
ReplyDeleteThat's just foolish talk!
ReplyDeleteOr is it?
Let's take it logically.
Let's posit as a given that someone does have a degree of intuitive understanding.
This means that the "intuitive understanding" is in touch with the intellectual mind to a greater or lesser extent.
Now if the "intutive understanding" is great and clear
Then when one says "Everything is everything," then
"Yes! "Everything Is Everything."
But if the intutive insight isn't so clear, when one says
"'If' everything is everything, can we stop asking questions now" the chances are it is not the time to stop asking questions."
Better to continue training and questions than to ask, "can we stop now?" IMHO
Years ago I would have simply said "No!" "Do not stop!!" "Bravely March On!!" Now it's like."OK, Frank you're tired, take a break, eat your Protein Bar or drink your Boost, then take a nap. In other words, meditate (e.g. morning Zazen, Exercise (e.g. stretch, weights, walk), Read or listen to the radio or watch TV (news and opinion, do some creative work (write, paint, draw, photograph, work on some hobby.), watch a movie or go to a show, hang out with some friends, hangout with my wife, hangout with my kids, work part time. In words, live a balanced life. When one can one should focus on one of the areas of life that needs some attention.
Obviously one cannot possibly not all these things on the same day.
This line of thought is loosely based on John Daido Loori's "The Eight Gates of Zen," a very thoughtful examination of Zen Training from the perspectice of long term / life time practice.
I'm still figuring it out as I go along. Which is why I disagreed with you and your twenty year rule spiritual expiration post. In other words with the right prioritizing and scheduling one can continue one's training and do stamp collecting, mountain climbing, picture painting, getting out to the race track, becoming an aficionado of shoes, and singing at breakfast . Please don't do the later at sesshin though some of us want and like the peace and quiet of prolonged zazen.
Yikes! Enough already.
ReplyDeleteYou are right, too much information.
ReplyDeleteI stand corrected.
My first Zen instructor, known then as Tai-san, introduced a woman who believe she experienced a deep and profound realization. He told us up front that she would not be talking to us in the way a well trained Zen student would. He said that a well trained Zen student would have told a poem, and he recited poem from a story published in the little book entitled ”Zen Flesh Zen Bones” complied, and translated by Nyogen Sensaki and Paul Reps.:
A monk asked Fuketsu: "Without speaking, without silence, how can you express the truth?"
Fuketsu observed: "I always remember springtime in southern China. The birds sing among innumerable kinds of fragrant flowers.”
- [Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, p.200]
Now Tai let the lady speak for a full 40 minutes. It was fascinating. But she used the languages of early Buddhism and of Kundalini Yoga. I believed her. Since Tai-san allowed her to speak;……………………………………0 he gave his implicit sanction to her experiences..
But her revelations were off the chart. it sounded a little nuts in fact. Lights, energy, dissolution of the self, merging with the infinite, etc. She kept repeating the line ”Infinite Mind, Omnipresent and Impersonal.” She was going to lead her own group.
I weighed what she said against what Tai-san said
"I always remember springtime in southern China. The birds sing among innumerable kinds of fragrant flowers.”
to
”Infinite Mind, Omnipresent and Impersonal.”
I decide that I greatly preferred the Zen approach. Yet I see still value in other approach.
But I am a sucker for a good question, and a product of unfinsihed training.
Opps!
ReplyDeleteEdit line: "Since Tai-san allowed her to speak;……………………………………0 he gave his implicit sanction to her experiences.".
To
Since Tai-san allowed her to speak; he gave his implicit sanction to her experiences..
PS I like the mutlisensory scene Fuketsu expressed even more now than I did in 1969.
Learn to spell, Frank.
ReplyDeleteSigh. So what are your blog numbers like Genkaku?
ReplyDeleteYou know the screen with the number of visitors.
Or are you writing for you and OldCharlie is you, too.
I figure he is you because he always agrees with whatever you say if he bothers to say anything.
Is he the ideal reader, eh? The one who validates whatever you say.
I'd said shoot me.
I'd want to be challenged not arbitrarily just to keep a sharp edge.
ReplyDeleteFrank -- You take care of your blog and I'll take care of mine.
I'm grateful to have my own problems and not Adams. lol
ReplyDeleteAnd... i'm more of a grumbler than scribbler. I'd find blogging onerous. lol
ReplyDelete:)
ReplyDelete